Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's aides have explored moving some impeachment witnesses on loan to the White House from other agencies, such as Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, back to their home departments ahead of schedule, according to people familiar with the conversations.
As
public hearings bring the officials' allegations to his television
screen, Trump is asking anew how witnesses such as Vindman and Ambassador Bill Taylor
came to work for him, people familiar with the matter said. He has
suggested again they be dismissed, even as advisers warn him firing them
could be viewed as retaliation.
The
possible move of officials out of the White House could still be viewed
by some as evidence of retribution for their testimony. Trump's
frustration at his own officials comes as he attacks witnesses on
Twitter, including during Friday's public hearing with the ousted
ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch. Trump appears to have adopted a strategy of maligning the officials, despite some allies encouraging him not to.
The
uncertain fate and public thrashing of these officials has created a
thorny situation for a White House wading through the impeachment
process. Trump's impulse to dismiss them hasn't been realized, but he's
made clear nevertheless he views them as unwelcome.
It's
one of the persistent anomalies of the impeachment inquiry: most of the
witnesses airing concerns at Trump's approach to Ukraine remain
employed by him, despite his claims they are "Never Trumpers" and his
overt suggestions they've already been fired.
None,
for now, have been explicitly fired by Trump, even as he and his allies
suggest otherwise. It's created an odd and uncomfortable situation for
staffers, who say they are unclear on their colleagues' futures in the
administration.
Over
the weekend, a GOP talking point emerged that Trump was well within his
rights to choose his own team, a response to Yovanovitch public
recounting of the smear campaign orchestrated by Trump's allies to push
her from her post in Kiev.
"America
hired @realDonaldTrump to fire people like the first three witnesses
we've seen," the President's son, Donald Trump Jr., tweeted as
Yovanovitch began her testimony. "Career government bureaucrats and
nothing more."
A day later, Trump
himself suggested on Twitter he'd already fired the three State
Department employees who have appeared in public impeachment hearings,
quoting the conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh.
"You
elected Donald Trump to drain the Swamp, well, dismissing people like
Yovanovitch is what that looks like. Dismissing people like Kent and
Taylor, dismissing everybody involved from the Obama holdover days
trying to undermine Trump, getting rid of those people, dismissing them,
this is what it looks like," Trump tweeted, citing Limbaugh.
He was referring to George Kent,
the current deputy assistant secretary of state for European and
Eurasian affairs, and Bill Taylor, the current top US diplomat in
Ukraine.
The message left the
impression that Trump was fulfilling a campaign promise by removing
those who'd testified about their concerns. But as of Monday, all three
of the people named in his tweet remain employed by his administration.
Kent and Taylor are still in their posts, and while Yovanovitch took a
position at Georgetown University after being recalled, she remains a
State Department employee.
Trump
has not taken formal steps to order those officials' removal from
government, according to administration officials, who say instead he
has vented at how they were allowed to work for him in the first place.
In the case of Taylor, Trump has lashed out at Secretary of State Mike
Pompeo, who personally encouraged Taylor to come out of retirement when
Yovanovitch was recalled.
Asked at a news conference Monday whether the President had confidence in Taylor, Pompeo demurred.
"The
State Department is doing a fantastic job. I think we've delivered in a
way that the Obama Administration has not delivered on Ukraine," Pompeo
said, declining otherwise to state whether the top envoy in Ukraine was
still in the President's good graces.
He did offer blanket support for his staff as they withstand attacks from the President and his allies.
"I
always defend State Department employees. This is the greatest
diplomatic corps in the history of the world. Very proud of the team,"
he said, without rebutting any of Trump's claims.
Warned against action
Early
in the impeachment proceedings, as witnesses came to deliver closed
depositions on Capitol Hill, Trump's advisers warned him against taking
steps to fire those speaking out. His actions could be perceived as
retaliation, they cautioned, and could be used by Democrats as they
compiled articles of impeachment.
But
now, the strength of that advice is being tested by televised hearings
and the public release of the private interviews. Trump has watched the
hearings intermittently and consumed hours of news coverage afterward.
On
Sunday, Trump lashed out at another witness, Jennifer Williams, a State
Department employee on loan to the vice president's office as a foreign
policy adviser. On Twitter, the President wrote, "Tell Jennifer
Williams, whoever that is, to read BOTH transcripts of the presidential
calls, & see the just released ststement (sic) from Ukraine. Then
she should meet with the other Never Trumpers, who I don't know &
mostly never even heard of, & work out a better presidential
attack!"
Asked about the tweet,
Vice President Mike Pence's spokeswoman said only: "Jennifer is a State
Department employee." The State Department didn't comment.
Despite
Pence's office distancing themselves from Williams in public, White
House sources said Williams still has the support of his team, including
chief of staff Marc Short and Williams' boss, Gen. Keith Kellogg, who
serves as Pence's national security adviser.
"She is just as key a part of the team," a White House official said.
For
now, the expectation is that Williams, who was detailed to Pence's
office from the State Department earlier this year, will remain in her
post. However, there's "no chance" Pence will step forward to defend
Williams, the official added.
"In the press it has been pretty clear that he is distancing himself from 'the deep state,' " the official said.
Vindman's fate
Less
clear is the fate of Vindman, who will appear in a public hearing on
Tuesday morning alongside Williams. The top Ukraine expert on the
National Security Council, Vindman raised concerns about Trump's July
phone call with Ukraine's President to National Security Council
lawyers.
Additional testimony from
Tim Morrison, the council's former senior director for European and
Russian, suggested internal concerns about Vindman's suitability for the
job. Morrison said he was warned about Vindman's judgment from his
predecessor, Fiona Hill.
Like many
National Security Council staffers, Vindman is detailed to the agency
from the Defense Department, where he served as a foreign area officer.
His twin brother Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman is also assigned to the
council as a lawyer, and accompanied Alexander Vindman when he brought
his concerns to White House lawyers.
In
the wake of his testimony, some officials at the White House have
explored moving both men back to the Pentagon, according to people
familiar with the matter. But it's not clear when that might occur. And
Alexander Vindman's lawyer said recently his detail to the National
Security Council does not expire until next summer.
Speaking
on CBS earlier this month, national security adviser Robert O'Brien
said Vindman would likely return to the Pentagon but framed the move as
part of his larger efforts to reduce the size of the National Security
Council.
"We're streamlining the
National Security Council. There are people that are detailed from
different departments and agencies. My understanding is that Colonel
Vindman is detailed from the Department of Defense," he said. "So
everyone who's detailed at the NSC, people are going to start going back
to their own departments."
He
didn't specify whether the move would occur earlier than planned, and
insisted it did not amount to retaliation for Vindman's testimony.
"I never retaliated against anyone," O'Brien said.
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